Elwood H. Smith
June 5, 2008
Elwood Smith’s most vivid childhood memory is of crawling across the Sunday comics, his fat baby knee bones smudged with images of Krazy, Pogo, Mickey, Popeye, Barney Google, Snuffy Smith and the incorrigible Katzenjammers. They seeped into his bloodstream like a virus.Symptoms appeared early on. Hats began flying from hairless heads. Talk balloons materialized to encircle exclamations like ‘Yow’ and ‘Huh?’ Hence, as he became increasingly preoccupied with clown shoes, white gloves and stinky five-cent cigars, the only suitable remedy available to him was to become a humorous illustrator. Laughter is, after all, the best medicine.( Bio from AskART) Read More>>
E.H.S.- I am continually frustrated that I don’t have enough time to devote to learning all the great new software out there. I wish I could be at least three people. I am learning Apple’s Motion 2, which is not easy, but fairly intuitive (like all the Apple stuff), but I’d love to learn to use Final Effects, which I have, but can’t seem to get into. GarageBand is wonderful & so is iMovie. I’ve had Final Cut Pro for some months now and I still haven’t begun to learn it. My wife and rep, Maggie Pickard and I really like the Lynda.com tutorials–her QuickTime movies have helped us learn much of what we know. I do use Painter but, again, I don’t have the time to devote to really learning it. I’ve mostly used it to paint over short movie frames for my animation projects. As far as watercolor (and pen and ink) goes, I am so comfortable with traditional tools, that I favor them, especially when a deadline looms.
I’d love to learn more about Flash, but I tend to use Toon Boom Studio because I know it better and I love the rotating light table feature, which is unique to TBS. It helps me draw with my Wacom tablet/stylus in a more natural way. Still, I do wish I had more hours in each day to spend on learning new electronic tools.
Sandbox World- Robert Crumb, Dan Piraro, and yourself are musicians as well as cartoonists, of all the cartoonists you know which one has had a balanced career in both and which cartoonist do you know is a closet musician that we do not know of?
E.H.S.- Hmmm. Well, Crumb’s "Cheap Suit Serenaders" cut about 3 superb albums and he is one of the most famous cartoonists of all time, so I’d guess he’d be a good first choice for having a balanced music and art career. That is, if you can call Bob "balanced". Did you see the movie "Crumb"?
I’ve been in touch recently with the very talented illustrator, Mike Moran (he’s on the Drawger blog) and I just found out that he is an excellent songwriter. Back in my New York City days, I was in an all-artist band called "Ben Day & the Zipatones" with illustrator great, Lou Brooks, primo cartoonist, Mark Alan Stamaty, ex-National Lampoon art director Skip Johnston and designer, illustrator and cartoonist, Leslie Cabarga.
Sandbox World- Has the web helped you in your career? Do you think it has hindered many in your industry to some degree or made them better artists?
E.H.S.- I’m not sure the web has helped my career. It sure makes it easier for art directors, editors and designers to access my work. The business has changed in recent years for all illustrators, so it’s hard to gauge the impact the web has had. It makes research a whole lot easier, that’s for sure. No more trips to the library or rifling through my morgue for scrap. I love the web, but I can’t really answer either of our questions. There is still lots of bad art out there & plenty of great stuff, too. Like it’s always been, I’d say.
Sandbox World- If there was one book you had a yen to illustrate or commissioned job that got away that you wanted back, or regretted some?
E.H.S.- Nope. I have no regrets. Well, to be honest, I wish I’d socked away a ton of money so I could relax and focus solely on my moving picture and music projects. But, for a curmudgeon, I’m pretty happy with the way my life and career have unfolded.
Sandbox World- You just discovered Renaissance music, many well know musicians are returning to the roots of music contradicting their rock roots. Your growth as a musician and audiophile has that made you a better artist or do you find yourself drifting more to music than art itself?
E.H.S.- Actually, I discovered Renaissance music way back in the 60’s when my first wife brought back a 7-course lute from England. I wasn’t a particularly good lutenist, but it was a great experience playing simple John Dowland & Thomas Robinson tunes. To my mind, music is the most powerful art form. Instrumental music is completely abstract and, when I listen to a Mahler symphony, I am transported to a near-spiritual plane. I am in awe of musical sounds of all stripes. Most, not all, but I have a wide range of musical appreciation. I don’t think music has influenced my art or the other way around, but I am ever grateful to have all the arts available. Sounds and images are apples and oranges, both delicious and nutritious.
Sandbox World- Do you feel that you have reached your zenith as a artist, if not what is that one thing that you want to accomplish still?
E.H.S.- I hope I haven’t reached my zenith. I do hope I live long enough to make a handful of small, excellent motion pictures. With my music, of course! We have little choice on that matter. I feel like I’m at the beginning of the most creative period of my life. We’ll see.
Sandbox World- Since you are doing cartoons with Flash and Toon Boom Studio, is there an animator from the past that drives you? Is it a hard process, I myself just find it to be a long grind. Do you like the recent crop of CGI movies, personally I prefer the old 2D ones. It seems it’s always the same formula, big actors, toilet humor, and big bucks. What happened to story?
E.H.S. -As I said earlier, I’m still in the learning process when it comes to animation. When I began, I was trying to learn the basics of animation, that is working on getting a good "walk cycle" and a convincing "squash & stretch", but I’ve chosen to approach it differently now. I don’t intend to do traditional animation, so my intentions are to create "moving pictures", avoiding the term animation as much as possible. I’m merging live action, art and photo stills and animated stuff into some other thing. I’m not sure what the hell I’m doing, but I’m having fun and I feel like I’m tapping into real creative juice down there. That’s much more important to me at this stage of my life & career than becoming a true animator.
Like you, I tend to prefer 2D animation, but when I see really great stories and wonderful drawing like exists in "The Incredibles", I like 3D as much as anything. Still, I’ll take a work like Toccofondo’s "La Piccola Russia" over anything out there. Personal taste, of course.
Sandbox World- I would like to thank you for your recent kid books out there, you are putting many smiles on my son and daughter’s faces and made them aware there is more to poop and pee. Thank goodness I don’t have to read to them Dick and Jane. As you know soon you will be running out of bodily functions to do topics for books or they may be too bawdy in nature. Any plans for the next kids’ book?
E.H.S.- Thank you for letting me know how much you and your family enjoy my illustrations. Susan Goodman (the author of "The Truth About Poop") and I not only collaborated on that book and on "Gee Whiz", but we are about to begin another book for Viking. I’m not sure I can tell what it is at this point, but it won’t be about vomit or snot. I’ll let you know when it becomes a reality.
Sandbox World- Thank you for joing us at Sandbox World.
E.H.S.- My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
Sandbox World- Peanuts, Pogo, and Krazy Kat have inspired me the most over the years. These strips are different in almost every way, but their worlds captivated me. Looking back on them, I think they can teach us something about comic strip potential.* These were the words of Bill Watterson about the cheapening of comics. Your work as an illustrator has always captured my imagination. I always found it to be a comic strip out of the box from comic strip panels, like a single frame from a film. George Herriman’s shadow does cast in your brilliant work and most kids don’t know the origins of your work. What message do you want to send to kids with your art ? Do you feel that comics have been cheapened?
*Bill Watterson The Cheapening of the Comics
Elwood H. Smith- George Herriman’s Krazy Kat has been very much an influence on my work. Herriman died in 1944 and I was born in 1941. I’m not certain, but I seem to have vague memories of observing Krazy Kat while crawling across the pages of the Sunday Comic Pages of the Detroit Free Press. Hearst wisely decided to let the strip die when Herriman died. Anyhow, I rediscovered Krazy Kat when I began digging into my early influences and applying them to my own work in the late ’70s. Finding my own style, my personal voice, was a slow process and I was nearly 36 by the time I began developing my current style, drawing upon the work of Elzie Segar (Popeye), Billy DeBeck (Barney Google) and Herriman. I’m a slow, but steady learner.
I don’t consciously attempt to send a message of any kind to my audience. I don’t show extreme violence and my characters are not vicious. They tend to me more like me, I suppose–worried and nervous, expecting an anvil to fall from the skies at any moment.
I don’t follow comics that much, so I don’t know if they’ve been cheapened. From what I see out there, the humor is not great and the art seems to be less stellar than that of past masters like Walt Kelly (Pogo) and more recent artists like Bill Waterson (Calvin & Hobbes). I’ve been more interested in the output of various animators and, of course, contemporary illustrators. I do like Dilbert. Very funny stuff and Scott Adam’s art style is good enough to tell the story. He wisely doesn’t overreach, trying to draw real perspective, etc., keeping it nice and simple.
Sandbox World- There are many book publishers out there bringing back in lavish bound new editions of the old strips back to live or the rights to them have become very cheap. (Popeye, Krazy Kat, Walt and Skeezix, Dick Tracy, and new ones coming out each month) Do you think kids will ever appreciate these classic comics that you grew up with?
E.H.S.- I hope so. If younger cartoonists and illustrators are exposed to those old masters, I’m pretty sure they’ll come to appreciate their art and their crazy, original inventions.
Sandbox World- Are there any new illustrators/cartoonists that caught your eye?
E.H.S.- Oh, yeah, I am very excited and inspired by newer illustrators, like Gary Taxali & Mark Matcho and amazing cartoonists like Chris Ware. Sorry to name only three of the many younger (and older) talents out there. And I’m very excited about animators like Gianluigi Toccafondo, Chris Hinton and David O’Reilly who are, in my opinion, real innovators. Of course I love more mainstream animators like Brad Bird’s "The Incredibles" and the stop-motion gems like "Wallace & Gromit" from Nick Park.
Sandbox World- Not many illustrators such as yourself from your generation are using the latest in computer programs to express your art and music in different forms. Are there any programs out there that you wish you had more time to learn or which one really frustrates you. Ever consider using Painter instead of real watercolor?
*Bill Watterson The Cheapening of the Comics
Elwood H. Smith- George Herriman’s Krazy Kat has been very much an influence on my work. Herriman died in 1944 and I was born in 1941. I’m not certain, but I seem to have vague memories of observing Krazy Kat while crawling across the pages of the Sunday Comic Pages of the Detroit Free Press. Hearst wisely decided to let the strip die when Herriman died. Anyhow, I rediscovered Krazy Kat when I began digging into my early influences and applying them to my own work in the late ’70s. Finding my own style, my personal voice, was a slow process and I was nearly 36 by the time I began developing my current style, drawing upon the work of Elzie Segar (Popeye), Billy DeBeck (Barney Google) and Herriman. I’m a slow, but steady learner.
I don’t consciously attempt to send a message of any kind to my audience. I don’t show extreme violence and my characters are not vicious. They tend to me more like me, I suppose–worried and nervous, expecting an anvil to fall from the skies at any moment.
I don’t follow comics that much, so I don’t know if they’ve been cheapened. From what I see out there, the humor is not great and the art seems to be less stellar than that of past masters like Walt Kelly (Pogo) and more recent artists like Bill Waterson (Calvin & Hobbes). I’ve been more interested in the output of various animators and, of course, contemporary illustrators. I do like Dilbert. Very funny stuff and Scott Adam’s art style is good enough to tell the story. He wisely doesn’t overreach, trying to draw real perspective, etc., keeping it nice and simple.
Sandbox World- There are many book publishers out there bringing back in lavish bound new editions of the old strips back to live or the rights to them have become very cheap. (Popeye, Krazy Kat, Walt and Skeezix, Dick Tracy, and new ones coming out each month) Do you think kids will ever appreciate these classic comics that you grew up with?
E.H.S.- I hope so. If younger cartoonists and illustrators are exposed to those old masters, I’m pretty sure they’ll come to appreciate their art and their crazy, original inventions.
Sandbox World- Are there any new illustrators/cartoonists that caught your eye?
E.H.S.- Oh, yeah, I am very excited and inspired by newer illustrators, like Gary Taxali & Mark Matcho and amazing cartoonists like Chris Ware. Sorry to name only three of the many younger (and older) talents out there. And I’m very excited about animators like Gianluigi Toccafondo, Chris Hinton and David O’Reilly who are, in my opinion, real innovators. Of course I love more mainstream animators like Brad Bird’s "The Incredibles" and the stop-motion gems like "Wallace & Gromit" from Nick Park.
Sandbox World- Not many illustrators such as yourself from your generation are using the latest in computer programs to express your art and music in different forms. Are there any programs out there that you wish you had more time to learn or which one really frustrates you. Ever consider using Painter instead of real watercolor?
E.H.S.- I am continually frustrated that I don’t have enough time to devote to learning all the great new software out there. I wish I could be at least three people. I am learning Apple’s Motion 2, which is not easy, but fairly intuitive (like all the Apple stuff), but I’d love to learn to use Final Effects, which I have, but can’t seem to get into. GarageBand is wonderful & so is iMovie. I’ve had Final Cut Pro for some months now and I still haven’t begun to learn it. My wife and rep, Maggie Pickard and I really like the Lynda.com tutorials–her QuickTime movies have helped us learn much of what we know. I do use Painter but, again, I don’t have the time to devote to really learning it. I’ve mostly used it to paint over short movie frames for my animation projects. As far as watercolor (and pen and ink) goes, I am so comfortable with traditional tools, that I favor them, especially when a deadline looms.
I’d love to learn more about Flash, but I tend to use Toon Boom Studio because I know it better and I love the rotating light table feature, which is unique to TBS. It helps me draw with my Wacom tablet/stylus in a more natural way. Still, I do wish I had more hours in each day to spend on learning new electronic tools.
Sandbox World- Robert Crumb, Dan Piraro, and yourself are musicians as well as cartoonists, of all the cartoonists you know which one has had a balanced career in both and which cartoonist do you know is a closet musician that we do not know of?
E.H.S.- Hmmm. Well, Crumb’s "Cheap Suit Serenaders" cut about 3 superb albums and he is one of the most famous cartoonists of all time, so I’d guess he’d be a good first choice for having a balanced music and art career. That is, if you can call Bob "balanced". Did you see the movie "Crumb"?
I’ve been in touch recently with the very talented illustrator, Mike Moran (he’s on the Drawger blog) and I just found out that he is an excellent songwriter. Back in my New York City days, I was in an all-artist band called "Ben Day & the Zipatones" with illustrator great, Lou Brooks, primo cartoonist, Mark Alan Stamaty, ex-National Lampoon art director Skip Johnston and designer, illustrator and cartoonist, Leslie Cabarga.
Sandbox World- Has the web helped you in your career? Do you think it has hindered many in your industry to some degree or made them better artists?
E.H.S.- I’m not sure the web has helped my career. It sure makes it easier for art directors, editors and designers to access my work. The business has changed in recent years for all illustrators, so it’s hard to gauge the impact the web has had. It makes research a whole lot easier, that’s for sure. No more trips to the library or rifling through my morgue for scrap. I love the web, but I can’t really answer either of our questions. There is still lots of bad art out there & plenty of great stuff, too. Like it’s always been, I’d say.
Sandbox World- If there was one book you had a yen to illustrate or commissioned job that got away that you wanted back, or regretted some?
E.H.S.- Nope. I have no regrets. Well, to be honest, I wish I’d socked away a ton of money so I could relax and focus solely on my moving picture and music projects. But, for a curmudgeon, I’m pretty happy with the way my life and career have unfolded.
Sandbox World- You just discovered Renaissance music, many well know musicians are returning to the roots of music contradicting their rock roots. Your growth as a musician and audiophile has that made you a better artist or do you find yourself drifting more to music than art itself?
E.H.S.- Actually, I discovered Renaissance music way back in the 60’s when my first wife brought back a 7-course lute from England. I wasn’t a particularly good lutenist, but it was a great experience playing simple John Dowland & Thomas Robinson tunes. To my mind, music is the most powerful art form. Instrumental music is completely abstract and, when I listen to a Mahler symphony, I am transported to a near-spiritual plane. I am in awe of musical sounds of all stripes. Most, not all, but I have a wide range of musical appreciation. I don’t think music has influenced my art or the other way around, but I am ever grateful to have all the arts available. Sounds and images are apples and oranges, both delicious and nutritious.
Sandbox World- Do you feel that you have reached your zenith as a artist, if not what is that one thing that you want to accomplish still?
E.H.S.- I hope I haven’t reached my zenith. I do hope I live long enough to make a handful of small, excellent motion pictures. With my music, of course! We have little choice on that matter. I feel like I’m at the beginning of the most creative period of my life. We’ll see.
Sandbox World- Since you are doing cartoons with Flash and Toon Boom Studio, is there an animator from the past that drives you? Is it a hard process, I myself just find it to be a long grind. Do you like the recent crop of CGI movies, personally I prefer the old 2D ones. It seems it’s always the same formula, big actors, toilet humor, and big bucks. What happened to story?
E.H.S. -As I said earlier, I’m still in the learning process when it comes to animation. When I began, I was trying to learn the basics of animation, that is working on getting a good "walk cycle" and a convincing "squash & stretch", but I’ve chosen to approach it differently now. I don’t intend to do traditional animation, so my intentions are to create "moving pictures", avoiding the term animation as much as possible. I’m merging live action, art and photo stills and animated stuff into some other thing. I’m not sure what the hell I’m doing, but I’m having fun and I feel like I’m tapping into real creative juice down there. That’s much more important to me at this stage of my life & career than becoming a true animator.
Like you, I tend to prefer 2D animation, but when I see really great stories and wonderful drawing like exists in "The Incredibles", I like 3D as much as anything. Still, I’ll take a work like Toccofondo’s "La Piccola Russia" over anything out there. Personal taste, of course.
Sandbox World- I would like to thank you for your recent kid books out there, you are putting many smiles on my son and daughter’s faces and made them aware there is more to poop and pee. Thank goodness I don’t have to read to them Dick and Jane. As you know soon you will be running out of bodily functions to do topics for books or they may be too bawdy in nature. Any plans for the next kids’ book?
E.H.S.- Thank you for letting me know how much you and your family enjoy my illustrations. Susan Goodman (the author of "The Truth About Poop") and I not only collaborated on that book and on "Gee Whiz", but we are about to begin another book for Viking. I’m not sure I can tell what it is at this point, but it won’t be about vomit or snot. I’ll let you know when it becomes a reality.
Sandbox World- Thank you for joing us at Sandbox World.
E.H.S.- My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.
Trade Loeffler
June 5, 2008
"I link,therefore I am!"
This is the quote that introduces the world to webcomics from Charley Parker’s Argon Zark!. Since then, a slew of new strips have popped up each day. Most of the webcomics, to be truthful, are not that great. It’s rare that you find a talent like Trade Loeffler the creator of Zip and Li’l Bit in the Upside-Down Me. Every Thursday and Sunday we are treated to a new webepisode of his strip.
This is the quote that introduces the world to webcomics from Charley Parker’s Argon Zark!. Since then, a slew of new strips have popped up each day. Most of the webcomics, to be truthful, are not that great. It’s rare that you find a talent like Trade Loeffler the creator of Zip and Li’l Bit in the Upside-Down Me. Every Thursday and Sunday we are treated to a new webepisode of his strip.
Sandbox World- I would like to welcome you to the Sandbox.
Trade- Thank you very much. This is my first ever interview so it’s very exciting.
Sandbox World- Unlike other webcomic cartoonists, you already have a rich background in the type of work you are offering for free on the Internet? What made you want to go directly to the net as opposed to shopping around the idea till somebody buys it?
Trade- The way I look at it, putting my comic out there for free on the internet is a form of shopping it around. It’s been a great way for me to begin getting my work known and to meet both people who are interested in comics and people working in comics professionally. Living in New York, I’ve met quite a few cartoonists and comics artists since I started the website: a few who contacted me directly because they’d read Zip and Li’l Bit, and then others who those people introduced me to. And then I’ve talked to a lot of people online from all over the world. You mentioned Charley Parker: I traded e-mails with him when my comic started and he wrote some very kind things about Zip and Li’l Bit on his Lines and Colors site. That was exciting to me.
Sandbox World- I noticed that Ross Andru as an influence, he graced many great Spiderman stories in the 70’s and of course the unprecedented giant size Superman/ Spiderman team-up . Did you know he was a pioneer? He attempted to self publish his own comic book company in 1951, 1953, 1970 and finally 1990. He failed because it was too expensive to operate your own comic company. So he had no choice but to work for both DC and Marvel. Imagine for a second if the Internet was created back then, do you think he would find success?
Trade- I didn’t know that self-publishing stuff about Ross Andru. I don’t know what sort of success he would have found if the internet was around back then, but it would have been really interesting to see what sort of stories he would have drawn and told if able to work for himself. One of the exciting things about webcomics is that an artist (for good or bad) is not restricted to creating work to accommodate what the marketplace is perceived to be. With so many talented artists today and the accessibility of the web, who knows what new genres will spring up.
One of the great things about those old Spiderman comics for me was that it was my introduction to New York City. A lot of the stories and the artwork were very specific to different landmarks or neighborhoods in New York in the ’70s. After I moved back here, I dug out all those old Spideys and re-read them. This was about eight years ago. There was one story where Peter Parker had lost his apartment (blown up by the Green Goblin, I think) and had to rent an apartment in Chelsea for $100 bucks a month. It was hilarious. The housing market has definitely changed since those days.
Sandbox World- When you worked at Scholastic did you see them embracing ideas like Jeff Smith’s Bone and the great fame it has brought him recently and to Scholastic at the same time.
Trade- While at Scholastic, I worked in their internet group and wasn’t involved with their Graffix imprint, which does all their comics. I did get to do a little work on Scholastic’s website for Bone though, so I got to go to their corporate release party for the first Bone book. Jeff Smith was there, of course, and he’d invited all his comic buddies. Frank Miller was there, and Mike Carlin, Kyle Baker, and a bunch of other people. Unfortunately for me, I am a complete wuss and was way too shy to go up and talk to any of these people who I’d always idolized.
It’s really exciting that Scholastic has gotten into the comic book business. They have built up an incredible distribution network because they’ve been working with schools and teachers for so many, many years. With their Book Fairs and all, they can get their books right into the classroom. I think they’ve helped open the door for comics to a whole new generation of readers.
Besides Bone, their other titles are great as well. The Babysitter’s Club is fabulous. And the first issue of Goosebumps blew me away. It was like reading the old Creepy and Eerie magazines from the ’70s. They’ve also got Amulet, by Kazu Kibuishi, coming out which I expect will be awesome.
Sandbox World- What is your routine when you create a weekly strip. How long does it take to produce and what muse drives the main idea of the strip.
Trade- Part of my routine to create this strip and get it going was that I quit my "real job" for awhile and devoted myself full-time to working on Zip and Li’l Bit. I’ve only recently re-entered the workforce. Financially, it hasn’t been the smartest decision I could have made, but artistically it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. Being able to draw every day, I’ve made great strides in my inking, the characters in the story have evolved nicely, and my figure drawing has loosened up considerably. I actually had to re-draw a bunch of the original pages I had done because I felt the drawings had noticeably improved.
I do all the writing first. Before I left my job, I had the whole story of The Upside-Down Me written and, I guess you could say, storyboarded out. When I’m writing I try to capture what the characters are doing as much as what they’re saying. I try to keep the drawing driving as much of the action as the text does. From there it is just a matter of finding the time to do the grunt-work which, for me, is the drawing. I really enjoy it, but it’s very time consuming.
Right now I’m a few pages shy of having the whole story of The Upside-Down Me completely finished. I’ve got a second story about halfway written out now. My goal is to take about a six-month break once The Upside-Down Me finishes and then start up the second story. That may change, though, depending on what happens between now and then.
Sandbox World- What is the origin of an upside-down me?
Trade- I hate to admit this but I don’t really have an origin for an upside-down me. I made a decision very early on when developing this strip to intentionally not get too involved in trying to explain a lot of the rather odd goings on at Zip and Li’l Bit’s house. It really freed me up creatively to just go with any idea I had and see where it led. For example, I could include things like Zip’s Octopus Arms for no reason other than that they were fun to draw, and not have to drag the reader through any sort of explanation of how something you would slide on your arms would suddenly animate and behave as a real octopus tentacle might. Also, I felt that the idea of asking the reader to just accept these things, instead of saying that they live in a magic house or something, added more of a sense of play to the strip and makes it more kid-like.
Hopefully, I’ve done a good enough job establishing the tone of the strip that after reading a couple of pages the reader doesn’t think of anything that’s going on as unnatural or out of context with the story.
Sandbox World- How much does your son play as an inspiration to your strip?
Trade- He is an inspiration in the drawings. I’ve never sat down and drawn a picture of my son but there are certain poses which I’ll draw for the comic and then realize that I’ve drawn them in the same way my son might stand, and Zip’s skinny shoulders when he’s not wearing his pajamas definitely belong to my son.
From a writing standpoint, I don’t think he’s that much of an inspiration. He’s got his own personality and I think Zip and Li’l Bit have their own personalities. When I’m writing I’ve always followed what Zip or Bit would do in a situation and not thought about how my son would handle it.
Sandbox World- Dennis the Menace and Peanuts are early childhood influences of yours, It is very hard to find comics that come close to those two strips till Bill Watterson came along and really updated many of the early work of the two strips. I really miss Calvin and Hobbes. There are too many strips that let kids speak on world issues with subtle humour. Do you to capture some of that magic with your strip?
Trade- I miss Calvin and Hobbes too. One of the things where I think a lot of writers miss the mark with kids is that they create characters that have way more experience than a child actually would, and wind up with characters that don’t have the same acceptance of things that a child might, or make the kind of mistakes a child would. Bill Watterson was able to capture that sense of innocence with Calvin.
You know who I really admire nowadays is the guys who write South Park. One example that comes to mind is a hilarious episode where an announcer at a Sea-World type park tricks the kids into thinking that his voice is that of a whale who has been kidnapped and needs to return to his home on the moon, and the kids just accept that this is true. I suspect people don’t often give Trey Parker and Matt Stone props for how well they portray children, but they do it very well. All the kids that live in my building love South Park, but of course that may be because of the bad language.
Sandbox World- What advice can you give to somebody who wants to start his own webcomic and have a real job that pays the bills? Do you find it hard to give time to a strip that does not generate money.
Trade- I’m very lucky with Zip and Li’l Bit in that they’ve grown into something that while I really enjoy it, it’s also something I’m kind of driven to do. It’s hard work. The time for me to work on my comic now is after my son goes to sleep at night, so my working hours for the strip are from about 10 pm to 2 am. I think that that is pretty common for most creators, at least I notice a lot of comments from them on their sites mentioning posting stuff very late in the evening.
Sandbox World- Many webcomics depend on Adsense or some kind of other type of revenue making scheme to attract both readers and a little cash to pay for hosting. Unlike numbered issues sold of books, what do you consider a fair number of hits for a webcomic site and to continue doing it. I do applaud your site, so not plastering it with all kinds of ads. It’s a friendly site and really focuses on the strip.
Trade- I have no idea what would be considered a good number of hits for a webcomic site. I’m afraid that if I compared my numbers with other sites, it would be depressing. If I were selling ad space and such, the number of hits would be a concern and I’d have to devote a lot more time to promoting it, but my goal is to showcase the comic so I’m comfortable with it the way it is now.
Sandbox World- When you are finished your 62 page comic, do you plan to keep it on the web?
Trade- That is my plan right now, but that could change depending on what happens with the comic. My ultimate goal is to get The Upside-Down Me published in printed form and find a way to do a couple other books with these characters as well. For myself, I would love for the comic to exist in both printed and web form, but I wouldn’t rule anything out.
Sandbox World- Any webcomics on the net do you feel are going to go the next level and go print form soon. Anthologies like Flight and other smaller companies are taking note of guys like you. Have you been approached by any of them? Do you feel most of them are looking for raunchier and weirder stories.
Trade- I’m not sure what webcomics will be going to print soon. My favorite comic on the net is Beaver and Steve by James Turner which I would love to see break through in print. I think we’ll definitely be seeing more and more artists with a big web presence who make the jump to the print world and become very successful. I think people like Kazu Kibuishi, Dean Trippe, and Hope Larson are already doing well and I expect that’s just the beginning.
I haven’t been approached by Flight or anyone else like that but Kazu very generously wrote some stuff about Zip and Li’l Bit on his Bolt City blog when my comic first started. I’ve gotten e-mails from a couple of the artists that have contributed to Flight. Obviously, that would be a huge feather in someone’s cap to contribute to the Flight books but they’ve got so many talented artists already.
Sandbox World- I really like the premise of your story and I hope to learn more about the characters. Any surprises for them and do you have some kind of shocker for us at the end of the story. Keep up the good work, it’s my favorite site to visit each Thursday and Sunday at http://www.zipandbit.com/. Thank you for joining us in the Sandbox.
Trade- The ending of The Upside-Down Me isn’t really a shocker, but I am very happy with it. I hope that everyone reading it will enjoy it as well. Thanks so much for inviting me to the Sandbox.
Trade- Thank you very much. This is my first ever interview so it’s very exciting.
Sandbox World- Unlike other webcomic cartoonists, you already have a rich background in the type of work you are offering for free on the Internet? What made you want to go directly to the net as opposed to shopping around the idea till somebody buys it?
Trade- The way I look at it, putting my comic out there for free on the internet is a form of shopping it around. It’s been a great way for me to begin getting my work known and to meet both people who are interested in comics and people working in comics professionally. Living in New York, I’ve met quite a few cartoonists and comics artists since I started the website: a few who contacted me directly because they’d read Zip and Li’l Bit, and then others who those people introduced me to. And then I’ve talked to a lot of people online from all over the world. You mentioned Charley Parker: I traded e-mails with him when my comic started and he wrote some very kind things about Zip and Li’l Bit on his Lines and Colors site. That was exciting to me.
Sandbox World- I noticed that Ross Andru as an influence, he graced many great Spiderman stories in the 70’s and of course the unprecedented giant size Superman/ Spiderman team-up . Did you know he was a pioneer? He attempted to self publish his own comic book company in 1951, 1953, 1970 and finally 1990. He failed because it was too expensive to operate your own comic company. So he had no choice but to work for both DC and Marvel. Imagine for a second if the Internet was created back then, do you think he would find success?
Trade- I didn’t know that self-publishing stuff about Ross Andru. I don’t know what sort of success he would have found if the internet was around back then, but it would have been really interesting to see what sort of stories he would have drawn and told if able to work for himself. One of the exciting things about webcomics is that an artist (for good or bad) is not restricted to creating work to accommodate what the marketplace is perceived to be. With so many talented artists today and the accessibility of the web, who knows what new genres will spring up.
One of the great things about those old Spiderman comics for me was that it was my introduction to New York City. A lot of the stories and the artwork were very specific to different landmarks or neighborhoods in New York in the ’70s. After I moved back here, I dug out all those old Spideys and re-read them. This was about eight years ago. There was one story where Peter Parker had lost his apartment (blown up by the Green Goblin, I think) and had to rent an apartment in Chelsea for $100 bucks a month. It was hilarious. The housing market has definitely changed since those days.
Sandbox World- When you worked at Scholastic did you see them embracing ideas like Jeff Smith’s Bone and the great fame it has brought him recently and to Scholastic at the same time.
Trade- While at Scholastic, I worked in their internet group and wasn’t involved with their Graffix imprint, which does all their comics. I did get to do a little work on Scholastic’s website for Bone though, so I got to go to their corporate release party for the first Bone book. Jeff Smith was there, of course, and he’d invited all his comic buddies. Frank Miller was there, and Mike Carlin, Kyle Baker, and a bunch of other people. Unfortunately for me, I am a complete wuss and was way too shy to go up and talk to any of these people who I’d always idolized.
It’s really exciting that Scholastic has gotten into the comic book business. They have built up an incredible distribution network because they’ve been working with schools and teachers for so many, many years. With their Book Fairs and all, they can get their books right into the classroom. I think they’ve helped open the door for comics to a whole new generation of readers.
Besides Bone, their other titles are great as well. The Babysitter’s Club is fabulous. And the first issue of Goosebumps blew me away. It was like reading the old Creepy and Eerie magazines from the ’70s. They’ve also got Amulet, by Kazu Kibuishi, coming out which I expect will be awesome.
Sandbox World- What is your routine when you create a weekly strip. How long does it take to produce and what muse drives the main idea of the strip.
Trade- Part of my routine to create this strip and get it going was that I quit my "real job" for awhile and devoted myself full-time to working on Zip and Li’l Bit. I’ve only recently re-entered the workforce. Financially, it hasn’t been the smartest decision I could have made, but artistically it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. Being able to draw every day, I’ve made great strides in my inking, the characters in the story have evolved nicely, and my figure drawing has loosened up considerably. I actually had to re-draw a bunch of the original pages I had done because I felt the drawings had noticeably improved.
I do all the writing first. Before I left my job, I had the whole story of The Upside-Down Me written and, I guess you could say, storyboarded out. When I’m writing I try to capture what the characters are doing as much as what they’re saying. I try to keep the drawing driving as much of the action as the text does. From there it is just a matter of finding the time to do the grunt-work which, for me, is the drawing. I really enjoy it, but it’s very time consuming.
Right now I’m a few pages shy of having the whole story of The Upside-Down Me completely finished. I’ve got a second story about halfway written out now. My goal is to take about a six-month break once The Upside-Down Me finishes and then start up the second story. That may change, though, depending on what happens between now and then.
Sandbox World- What is the origin of an upside-down me?
Trade- I hate to admit this but I don’t really have an origin for an upside-down me. I made a decision very early on when developing this strip to intentionally not get too involved in trying to explain a lot of the rather odd goings on at Zip and Li’l Bit’s house. It really freed me up creatively to just go with any idea I had and see where it led. For example, I could include things like Zip’s Octopus Arms for no reason other than that they were fun to draw, and not have to drag the reader through any sort of explanation of how something you would slide on your arms would suddenly animate and behave as a real octopus tentacle might. Also, I felt that the idea of asking the reader to just accept these things, instead of saying that they live in a magic house or something, added more of a sense of play to the strip and makes it more kid-like.
Hopefully, I’ve done a good enough job establishing the tone of the strip that after reading a couple of pages the reader doesn’t think of anything that’s going on as unnatural or out of context with the story.
Sandbox World- How much does your son play as an inspiration to your strip?
Trade- He is an inspiration in the drawings. I’ve never sat down and drawn a picture of my son but there are certain poses which I’ll draw for the comic and then realize that I’ve drawn them in the same way my son might stand, and Zip’s skinny shoulders when he’s not wearing his pajamas definitely belong to my son.
From a writing standpoint, I don’t think he’s that much of an inspiration. He’s got his own personality and I think Zip and Li’l Bit have their own personalities. When I’m writing I’ve always followed what Zip or Bit would do in a situation and not thought about how my son would handle it.
Sandbox World- Dennis the Menace and Peanuts are early childhood influences of yours, It is very hard to find comics that come close to those two strips till Bill Watterson came along and really updated many of the early work of the two strips. I really miss Calvin and Hobbes. There are too many strips that let kids speak on world issues with subtle humour. Do you to capture some of that magic with your strip?
Trade- I miss Calvin and Hobbes too. One of the things where I think a lot of writers miss the mark with kids is that they create characters that have way more experience than a child actually would, and wind up with characters that don’t have the same acceptance of things that a child might, or make the kind of mistakes a child would. Bill Watterson was able to capture that sense of innocence with Calvin.
You know who I really admire nowadays is the guys who write South Park. One example that comes to mind is a hilarious episode where an announcer at a Sea-World type park tricks the kids into thinking that his voice is that of a whale who has been kidnapped and needs to return to his home on the moon, and the kids just accept that this is true. I suspect people don’t often give Trey Parker and Matt Stone props for how well they portray children, but they do it very well. All the kids that live in my building love South Park, but of course that may be because of the bad language.
Sandbox World- What advice can you give to somebody who wants to start his own webcomic and have a real job that pays the bills? Do you find it hard to give time to a strip that does not generate money.
Trade- I’m very lucky with Zip and Li’l Bit in that they’ve grown into something that while I really enjoy it, it’s also something I’m kind of driven to do. It’s hard work. The time for me to work on my comic now is after my son goes to sleep at night, so my working hours for the strip are from about 10 pm to 2 am. I think that that is pretty common for most creators, at least I notice a lot of comments from them on their sites mentioning posting stuff very late in the evening.
Sandbox World- Many webcomics depend on Adsense or some kind of other type of revenue making scheme to attract both readers and a little cash to pay for hosting. Unlike numbered issues sold of books, what do you consider a fair number of hits for a webcomic site and to continue doing it. I do applaud your site, so not plastering it with all kinds of ads. It’s a friendly site and really focuses on the strip.
Trade- I have no idea what would be considered a good number of hits for a webcomic site. I’m afraid that if I compared my numbers with other sites, it would be depressing. If I were selling ad space and such, the number of hits would be a concern and I’d have to devote a lot more time to promoting it, but my goal is to showcase the comic so I’m comfortable with it the way it is now.
Sandbox World- When you are finished your 62 page comic, do you plan to keep it on the web?
Trade- That is my plan right now, but that could change depending on what happens with the comic. My ultimate goal is to get The Upside-Down Me published in printed form and find a way to do a couple other books with these characters as well. For myself, I would love for the comic to exist in both printed and web form, but I wouldn’t rule anything out.
Sandbox World- Any webcomics on the net do you feel are going to go the next level and go print form soon. Anthologies like Flight and other smaller companies are taking note of guys like you. Have you been approached by any of them? Do you feel most of them are looking for raunchier and weirder stories.
Trade- I’m not sure what webcomics will be going to print soon. My favorite comic on the net is Beaver and Steve by James Turner which I would love to see break through in print. I think we’ll definitely be seeing more and more artists with a big web presence who make the jump to the print world and become very successful. I think people like Kazu Kibuishi, Dean Trippe, and Hope Larson are already doing well and I expect that’s just the beginning.
I haven’t been approached by Flight or anyone else like that but Kazu very generously wrote some stuff about Zip and Li’l Bit on his Bolt City blog when my comic first started. I’ve gotten e-mails from a couple of the artists that have contributed to Flight. Obviously, that would be a huge feather in someone’s cap to contribute to the Flight books but they’ve got so many talented artists already.
Sandbox World- I really like the premise of your story and I hope to learn more about the characters. Any surprises for them and do you have some kind of shocker for us at the end of the story. Keep up the good work, it’s my favorite site to visit each Thursday and Sunday at http://www.zipandbit.com/. Thank you for joining us in the Sandbox.
Trade- The ending of The Upside-Down Me isn’t really a shocker, but I am very happy with it. I hope that everyone reading it will enjoy it as well. Thanks so much for inviting me to the Sandbox.
Patricia Storms
June 5, 2008
Sandbox World-What books were you influenced by the most when you were a child?
Patricia- So many different titles come to mind. Regarding picture books, I loved and still love everything by Dr. Seuss. Horton Hears a Who, And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas and The Sneetches are probably my favourite Seuss stories. I really connected with the Suess books ? not only because of Theodor Geisel?s dynamic illustrations, but also because of his delightfully witty and intelligent writing. From a very young age I was drawn to clever, humorous writing and playful words.
I also read a lot of cartoon books ? Peanuts, Dennis the Menace, BC, The Wizard of Id, as well as collections of cartoons by New Yorker cartoonists, and various works by British cartoonists like Ronald Searle, Thelwell and Gerard Hoffnung. I was always attracted to humorous writing and illustration. I also adored the Asterix the Gaul books, which were written by Ren? Goscinny, and illustrated by Albert Uderzo. The artwork in the Asterix stories is amazing, and the writing is very sharp and clever. I only wish I was fluent in French so I could read the original French versions. I?m sure I am missing a lot of great humour by just reading them in English.
Sandbox World-At what age did you decide to become an artist and who did you want to emulate? Which artist has influenced you the most?
Patricia- I suppose I?ve really always wanted to be an artist ever since I was a little kid. But in terms of making the real-life decision about being an illustrator and a cartoonist, I would say that answer came at two different stages of my life. When I was about 22 I realized that I really could earn money from drawing funny pictures, but I ended up doing freelance illustration and cartoon work on the side for many years while I worked full-time in a variety of professions. I worked in libraries, and I worked as a desktop publisher and then graphic designer until about 5 years ago when I finally made the leap into illustrating and cartooning full-time.
At different stages of my life, different artists have had a particular influence on me. I know that I used to copy the style of the British illustrator and cartoonist Ronald Searle a lot when I was a teenager. Then as a young adult I discovered the Canadian cartoonist Lynn Johnston. I loved her down-to-earth drawing style and her snappy gags (early on in her cartooning career her cartoons were much more gag-oriented, as opposed to the family saga storylines you read these days). Lynn Johnston really inspired me and motivated me to do more with my talents, because I realized that it was possible for a woman to be a successful cartoonist. Nowadays I think (and hope) that I have my own distinctive style. But I?m always changing and growing.
Sandbox World-What is your process of creating a picture book?
Patricia- So many different titles come to mind. Regarding picture books, I loved and still love everything by Dr. Seuss. Horton Hears a Who, And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street, The Grinch Who Stole Christmas and The Sneetches are probably my favourite Seuss stories. I really connected with the Suess books ? not only because of Theodor Geisel?s dynamic illustrations, but also because of his delightfully witty and intelligent writing. From a very young age I was drawn to clever, humorous writing and playful words.
I also read a lot of cartoon books ? Peanuts, Dennis the Menace, BC, The Wizard of Id, as well as collections of cartoons by New Yorker cartoonists, and various works by British cartoonists like Ronald Searle, Thelwell and Gerard Hoffnung. I was always attracted to humorous writing and illustration. I also adored the Asterix the Gaul books, which were written by Ren? Goscinny, and illustrated by Albert Uderzo. The artwork in the Asterix stories is amazing, and the writing is very sharp and clever. I only wish I was fluent in French so I could read the original French versions. I?m sure I am missing a lot of great humour by just reading them in English.
Sandbox World-At what age did you decide to become an artist and who did you want to emulate? Which artist has influenced you the most?
Patricia- I suppose I?ve really always wanted to be an artist ever since I was a little kid. But in terms of making the real-life decision about being an illustrator and a cartoonist, I would say that answer came at two different stages of my life. When I was about 22 I realized that I really could earn money from drawing funny pictures, but I ended up doing freelance illustration and cartoon work on the side for many years while I worked full-time in a variety of professions. I worked in libraries, and I worked as a desktop publisher and then graphic designer until about 5 years ago when I finally made the leap into illustrating and cartooning full-time.
At different stages of my life, different artists have had a particular influence on me. I know that I used to copy the style of the British illustrator and cartoonist Ronald Searle a lot when I was a teenager. Then as a young adult I discovered the Canadian cartoonist Lynn Johnston. I loved her down-to-earth drawing style and her snappy gags (early on in her cartooning career her cartoons were much more gag-oriented, as opposed to the family saga storylines you read these days). Lynn Johnston really inspired me and motivated me to do more with my talents, because I realized that it was possible for a woman to be a successful cartoonist. Nowadays I think (and hope) that I have my own distinctive style. But I?m always changing and growing.
Sandbox World-What is your process of creating a picture book?
Patricia- I don?t think I?ve illustrated enough picture books yet to be sure of what my process truly is (I?ve illustrated three educational picture books and one trade picture book), but so far for me, this is how I work on a picture book: The art director of the project emails me the manuscript. Often within the manuscript will be some minor instructions as to how the editors would like the story illustrated (ie, they may want certain characters to look a specific way, or there may be a pivotal scene that they want illustrated in a particular way), but for the most part, I get to unleash my imagination and create my own vision. When I read a manuscript, pictures will pop into my mind, of say, certain scenes, or what certain people look like. I create very rough sketches for the art director and editors to look at, so they can be sure I?m on the right track with the story. I?ll get the rough sketches back with comments, and once I know we?re all in agreement with the direction of illustration I am taking, I?ll start on the rough page layout of the entire story. If it?s a picture book that is at least 32 pages (like say, 13 Ghosts of Halloween), I may get a mock-up of the book layout, telling me generally where the text will go, and where to fit the illustrations. Once these roughs have been approved (and any changes made) I finally get to colour the story. Most of the illustration work I do is a mix of hand-drawn and digital. I will draw the story in pencil on paper, ink it with a brush and india ink, and then scan it in Photoshop for digital colouring. There may be some changes required from the art director regarding the use of colour, but for the most part, once I?m finished colouring, the job is finished for me. I?ll send the final images to the publisher, and eventually I will see a beautiful printed book with wonderful words and my pictures!
Sandbox World-Do you have a dream writer or artist that you would like to collaborate on a book?
Patricia- A couple of writers come to mind ? I think it would be great fun to illustrate a book written by Robert Munsch. His stories are full of fun and energy and silliness, which suits my illustration style perfectly. And I would be thrilled and honoured if not a tad intimidated to illustrate a children?s book written by Margaret Atwood (I believe she?s written three picture books so far). Aim high, I always say. So Bob and Peggy, give me a call!
Sandbox World-Do you do school visits and what reaction do you get from kids and how does it effect your work?
Patricia- It?s still too early in my illustration career to be doing school visits, but I certainly hope I that I?ll eventually get to do some. I hope I will be entertaining. I know I will be terrified.
Sandbox World-What new projects are you working on right now?
Patricia- I just finished illustrating a fun project all about the history of democracy. The book contains lots of factual information, but it?s presented in a very humorous style, and hopefully my silly cartoons will help make the book even funnier! I?m also working on a funky CD cover of spoken poetry for a literary publication. And recently I?ve been working on ideas for writing picture books. My dream is to be able to write and illustrate my own picture books one day.
Sandbox World-If you were not illustrating, what do you see yourself doing instead career wise?
Patricia- I really can?t imagine myself not illustrating. That?s like asking, ?if you were not breathing, what would you see yourself doing??. But I?ll try and answer that question…I imagine that I would probably be working in some area of the book industry, if not in libraries (which I did work in, for 10 years) then probably in the book publishing or book selling world. And I imagine that I would still want to try and do something career wise with writing.
Sandbox World-Dream assignment, what character or book would you love to tackle as an artist?
Patricia-My dream assignment quite frankly, is illustrating a book that is written by me!
Sandbox World-What advice can you give a young inspiring artist that wants to go into your field?
Patricia- I?ve given this advice before, and I?ll say it again ? get as much education as you possibly can in all subject areas, not just art. The more you know about the world around you, the better illustrator you will be. Feed your brain and your imagination with good books, both fiction and non-fiction. Cultivate a curious, inquisitive mind. Develop a tender heart and a thick skin, because you?ll need your sensitive side for illustrating, but you?ll have to be tough enough to take the inevitable rejection that will come your way. And it?s important to know that having talent is just one small part of becoming an illustrator. You really do have to be a tenacious, savvy business person, because as creative as this job is, it is in the end, a business. And of course, have fun!
Sandbox World-What is the hardest thing about being an illustrator? What was your toughest book to illustrate?
Patricia- There are lots of things that are hard about being an illustrator, but I suppose the hardest thing might be the whole struggle of maintaining a somewhat steady income. It?s often said that the freelancer?s life is ?feast or famine?, and that is certainly true in an illustrator?s job. There will be times when one is simply overwhelmed with work, and then other periods when no job offers are coming in, and then panic and insecurity have free reign over your over-active imagination.
Probably the toughest book I illustrated was my first educational picture book, ?Fifty Little Penguins?. I think you can figure out just from the title where the difficulty was in doing this job. That was a lot of penguins that I had to draw! And remember that I had to do rough sketches of all these penguins before working on the final. After a while it got to be pretty confusing, trying to make sure that I was drawing the exact number of penguins on a page. I?d start counting and then get lost, and then have to start all over again. But as tough as that job was, I still loved it, because it was my first illustrated children?s book, and because I love penguins!
Sandbox World-What qualities do you look for in a manuscript? Do you ever feel a project was not right for you?
Patricia- I like manuscripts that have a lot of energy and humour. I have yet to be offered a project that is not truly right for me, probably because the art directors who have contacted me are very familiar with my style of work, and know what kind of stories work best with my illustrations.
